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as a memeber of the LGBT community I feel a strong need to have a prepresentative in doll form. The monster high dools appear as if they are trying to be different and edgy, so I think they would be the perfect doll series to have a gay and a lesbian character.

 

I want this so badly because of something that happened with my niece. I saw her playing with the monster high dolls and her sister was having the two girl dolls kiss. I thought it was cute and didn't think anything of it until the oldest shoved her sister and said "Stop it thats gross girls don't kiss girls!" I sat down with my niece and told asked her why she did that and she said it was because the diaries of the dolls said they liked boys  so girls can't like girls.

 

I was shocked by this, I know for a fact she didn't get this from her parents because I've heard them openly talk about the LGBT community in a positive way.

 

With all the talk of LGBT issues like gay marriage , children need to be expose to LGBT people at an early age so they don't grow up ignorant. Having a doll to represent LGBT people will show people that LGBT people are people just like everyone else.

 

Whats the best way to make this happen and have a doll made?

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What do you guys think about this?

Monster High's first onscreen LGBT pairing, albeit through a mix up of cupid's arrows, but i thought it was very cute, and a bold move for a Nickelodeon special.

What are your thoughts?

http://alyssatolensky.deviantart.com/art/Manny-Taur-and-Slo-Mo-2852...

That was my first thing my little sister saw when they showed that scene. We found it really surprising for Mattel to do that. Her and I thought it was a nice thing that they put it but we thought that it could have possibly been a mistake like they do when they make some of the webisodes.

Groom of Frankenstein said:

What do you guys think about this?

Monster High's first onscreen LGBT pairing, albeit through a mix up of cupid's arrows, but i thought it was very cute, and a bold move for a Nickelodeon special.

What are your thoughts?

http://alyssatolensky.deviantart.com/art/Manny-Taur-and-Slo-Mo-2852...

To be honest I think it was supposed to be more comical than legitimate. Like "Lol two boys dancing boys don't do that!" because the scene was meant to be the silliness of the mixed pairings Cupid's arrows were causing- like Gil and the Gargoyle, the Manster and the Ice Sculpter, Clawdeen and the Nerdy Manster, etc. I think it was more of laughs sake than any real hint at an LGBT character pairing.

Groom of Frankenstein said:

What do you guys think about this?

Monster High's first onscreen LGBT pairing, albeit through a mix up of cupid's arrows, but i thought it was very cute, and a bold move for a Nickelodeon special.

What are your thoughts?

http://alyssatolensky.deviantart.com/art/Manny-Taur-and-Slo-Mo-2852...

Just wanted to say, for what is usually a lightning rod topic, this discussion (which I really wanted to sit out of altogether) has been mostly handled with respect and class by some very thoughtful individuals. Many of you should be commended for conducting yourselves with open hearts and minds.

Just saw this topic :)

 

Right, In my opinion, Monster High is enough about acceptance and just about ready to finally show a gay character. Why haven't they done it? Simple. Theres only one answer to that. Money. That's the reason no childrens line/tv show/franchise has barely ANYTHING aimed towards gay people, trans people, or whatever. They're just scared of losing money. And of course, the complaints. The endless complaints they'd recieve from parents, or religious nuts who would deem this 'unsafe' for children. (In my opinion, people like that are just excluding themselves fom the real world, and if they think somone who's LGBT is apparently 'unsafe' for their children, what'll happen in the future when one of their classmates come out? endless bullying. What will happen when the children of these types of people start coming out? I have no idea. But I have a feeling it wouldn't be good)

Also, the steps ARE beng taken, I've heard people say here 'steps toward LGBT people being shown more respectfully will start soon' No, they HAVE started. Here in the UK, we have very many childrens shows with effeminate males, or masculine girls. We've had few hints towards a character being gay in a few childrens shows. And most of all, the canadian show Arthur, had a spin off called postcards from Buster, whch had one episode showing children who had two lesbian mothers. I think these are the beginnings of HUGE steps towards the LGBT communities respect.

So no I do not believe Monster High will have a gay character. Though that doesn't stop me from pairing Jackson and Deuce ;)


"Here in the UK, we have very many childrens shows with effeminate males, or masculine girls."

I hope this doesn't actually have anything to do with the subject at hand. Challenging gender stereotypes is rad, but to assume they have anything to do with lgbtq characters is perpetuating a stereotype in and of itself. Especially when the "effeminate boys and masculine girls" are played for laughs. It's a fine line.

I've made my opinion on the matter clear before, but it's worth repeating. Wringing our hands and worrying what people will think about us for doing what's right does not make change. By introducing a canonically out lgbtq character, Mattel would be taking a major risk, yes. Doing what's right isn't always easy. But typically, that is how change is made.


VaughanH7 said:

Just saw this topic :)

 

Right, In my opinion, Monster High is enough about acceptance and just about ready to finally show a gay character. Why haven't they done it? Simple. Theres only one answer to that. Money. That's the reason no childrens line/tv show/franchise has barely ANYTHING aimed towards gay people, trans people, or whatever. They're just scared of losing money. And of course, the complaints. The endless complaints they'd recieve from parents, or religious nuts who would deem this 'unsafe' for children. (In my opinion, people like that are just excluding themselves fom the real world, and if they think somone who's LGBT is apparently 'unsafe' for their children, what'll happen in the future when one of their classmates come out? endless bullying. What will happen when the children of these types of people start coming out? I have no idea. But I have a feeling it wouldn't be good)

Also, the steps ARE beng taken, I've heard people say here 'steps toward LGBT people being shown more respectfully will start soon' No, they HAVE started. Here in the UK, we have very many childrens shows with effeminate males, or masculine girls. We've had few hints towards a character being gay in a few childrens shows. And most of all, the canadian show Arthur, had a spin off called postcards from Buster, whch had one episode showing children who had two lesbian mothers. I think these are the beginnings of HUGE steps towards the LGBT communities respect.

So no I do not believe Monster High will have a gay character. Though that doesn't stop me from pairing Jackson and Deuce ;)

Parents would freak out. Just look at how these morons react to OMG a barbie with tattoos! THE WORLD IS ENDING! Barbie had tats! noooo!

If Mattel made a doll openly gay? The backlash from the same idiots would be crippling.

It's very rare to get an openly gay character in any "children's" media tbh, especially one portrayed in a manner that isn't offensive in it's own right. 

of course, one could argue that Clawdeen, who shows ZERO interest in boys, may be our best option lol.

Keep it vague and let people come to their own conclusion, that way you avoid the backlash but don't totally kill the idea.

Interesting random:

Did you know that according to the creator of the series, Lexington from Gargoyles was supposed to be gay. Yeah... Of course, there's no real evidence of this in the show but that's pretty common. Openly gay is rare in media and "Gay because we said so behind the scenes" much more common. 

(Though I am pleased to see the writers behind Legion of Superheroes have decided to run with the beautifully subtle hint of the lesbian relationship between Lightning lass and Shrinking Violent. Now THAT was well written, no "omg this character is gay look!" in your face, it left it open to interpretation. Is that touch more than just two very close friends? )

Mattel already endures so much backlash for doing anything that isn't white bread wholesome, for some reason people seem to think Barbie is a role model or something. Ridiculous if you ask me, she's a hunk of plastic! Do we expect Transformers and toy cars to be role models for our sons!?? Of course not, because they're TOYS.

As for the girls don't kiss girls remark, I blame school. Young kids don't really seem to have a gender identity or understanding of gender roles and such till they get a bit older.

Slightly different, but as soon as my son went to preschool he started coming home with remarks like "Only GIRLS wear skirts!" (he used to dance around wearing one of my skirts saying he was a princess, it was hilarious and cute!) and "I'm A BOY! Pink is too girly!!!" 

Stupid school. 

So if any parent at the school is teaching their kid such views, or hell, the media they watch then yeah... 

My reaction, i have to admit, would have been "What? They can totally kiss if they want! Ken's having a relationship with Action Man you know." lol. I'm a horrible momma right? (though when I was a kid, Action man and Ken TOTALLY had a thing!)  

But in my little world, there's some questions being asked about Clawdeen lol. Maybe she just isn't interested in anyone, but I love that we have at least one character who isn't boy crazy and attached.

I have considered that assessment too, but I don't think the Manny/Moe couple is treated as a joke because they're both boys so much as that they're really incompatible personalitywise. There's a few same-sex dance couples one can spot before Toralei does her thing, And once she's stopped, Manny and Moe are one of the few couples who broke off in a respectful "what happened manner", rather than they were made fun of like for instance with Howleen and eyeball dude. (And then there's that I don't get what happened with Gil and the gargoyle because the gargoyle was NOT shot by Toralei, but I guess that should be considered a director's mess up.)

I also think that since MH was created by a homosexual man, the studios responsible for the animated work would be a little more thoughtful in regards to making certain orientations the butt of a joke. Then again, NCE thought a male rape joke was a good idea, so maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

Ninapedia said:

To be honest I think it was supposed to be more comical than legitimate. Like "Lol two boys dancing boys don't do that!" because the scene was meant to be the silliness of the mixed pairings Cupid's arrows were causing- like Gil and the Gargoyle, the Manster and the Ice Sculpter, Clawdeen and the Nerdy Manster, etc. I think it was more of laughs sake than any real hint at an LGBT character pairing.

Groom of Frankenstein said:

What do you guys think about this?

Monster High's first onscreen LGBT pairing, albeit through a mix up of cupid's arrows, but i thought it was very cute, and a bold move for a Nickelodeon special.

What are your thoughts?

http://alyssatolensky.deviantart.com/art/Manny-Taur-and-Slo-Mo-2852...

I have to agree with your Niece... they aren't LGBT characters. Its that simple. Obviously she was upset because it doesn't follow the stories... not because someone is feeding her evil notions about Lesbians. It grates on my last nerve when people "ship" characters into Homosexual relationships too! But it has nothing to do with homosexuality... I am a big supporter of the community (as a donator, voter with many friends and family who are LGBT), but this bizarre obsession with turning every fandom character gay when it is completely out of character bugs the crap out of me.

 

Of course I know that a little girl playing dolls and having them kiss is not the same thing as pervy fangirls shipping characters on DeviantArt... and she should play however she wants. I just don't believe you have anything to worry about... your other Niece just wants to play as the stories are and there is nothing wrong with that either.

 

Now if Mattel decides to bring Clawdeen of the closet... or ship Ghoulia and Lagoona great! I think it would be fantaastic for Mattel to introduce LGBT characters into the MH line. It needs more variety all around... not all teenage girls are boy crazy fashionistas!!

 

As far as the chances of Mattel actually creating LGBT characters.. no way. Sorry... but they aren't concerned about inclusion of all kinds of people. Look how long it took them the make Barbies that actually looked like Black women? What... 50 years or so? And I'm still waiting for a Plus Size fashion doll from Mattel. Thats not going to happen either...

  

with the effeminate males and masculine females, I don't mean exactly gay or lesbian boys and girls. There are drama series' here in the UK for children wit boys who play with dolls, and girls who can kick butt at skateboarding r rock climbing. Its not for laughs, its to BREAK the usual stereotype of that a boy HAS to like football, and play with trucks, and girls have to be all pink and ponies. There is one show, which is a comedy, and has a boy who is referred to as 'Gay' by many fans, and they all adore him! The creators of that show made an episode based on 'Coming out' but not exactly coming out as gay, his character pretended to his macho cousin that he was into rugby, and girls. But then had to gain confidence and let his cousin know that what he actually love is Lady Gaga and Fashion, and that if he didn't like that, then he has plenty of friends that loves him enough. Even though it was in a comedy, I saw it as a small hint towards acceptance of everyone, look it up, the show's called 'Sadie J' and the supposedly gay character is called Kit. Yes its going towards stereotypes that gay men are all girly, but how else are you suppose to hint a characters gay without making him actually say the words 'I'm gay' ?

 

And that's the case with Monster High, unless they made a character come out, or have a crush on someone of the same sex, the closest thing we'll have is characters like Clawdeen wo show NO interest in anyone whatsoever, or more stereotypical hints like super-fashionable, girly guys.

Soup said:


"Here in the UK, we have very many childrens shows with effeminate males, or masculine girls."

I hope this doesn't actually have anything to do with the subject at hand. Challenging gender stereotypes is rad, but to assume they have anything to do with lgbtq characters is perpetuating a stereotype in and of itself. Especially when the "effeminate boys and masculine girls" are played for laughs. It's a fine line.

I've made my opinion on the matter clear before, but it's worth repeating. Wringing our hands and worrying what people will think about us for doing what's right does not make change. By introducing a canonically out lgbtq character, Mattel would be taking a major risk, yes. Doing what's right isn't always easy. But typically, that is how change is made.


VaughanH7 said:

Just saw this topic :)

 

Right, In my opinion, Monster High is enough about acceptance and just about ready to finally show a gay character. Why haven't they done it? Simple. Theres only one answer to that. Money. That's the reason no childrens line/tv show/franchise has barely ANYTHING aimed towards gay people, trans people, or whatever. They're just scared of losing money. And of course, the complaints. The endless complaints they'd recieve from parents, or religious nuts who would deem this 'unsafe' for children. (In my opinion, people like that are just excluding themselves fom the real world, and if they think somone who's LGBT is apparently 'unsafe' for their children, what'll happen in the future when one of their classmates come out? endless bullying. What will happen when the children of these types of people start coming out? I have no idea. But I have a feeling it wouldn't be good)

Also, the steps ARE beng taken, I've heard people say here 'steps toward LGBT people being shown more respectfully will start soon' No, they HAVE started. Here in the UK, we have very many childrens shows with effeminate males, or masculine girls. We've had few hints towards a character being gay in a few childrens shows. And most of all, the canadian show Arthur, had a spin off called postcards from Buster, whch had one episode showing children who had two lesbian mothers. I think these are the beginnings of HUGE steps towards the LGBT communities respect.

So no I do not believe Monster High will have a gay character. Though that doesn't stop me from pairing Jackson and Deuce ;)

I wish they would, but I doubt Mattel would ever do that. :/

I don't think that would be a good idea about making a doll like that, because some moms freak out over everything! Like how cookie monster eats cookies, or on the back of the clawdeen wave 1 box it says she shaves, ect. I thinks moms like that are trying to hide the real world from there kids. (sorry if that offened anyone it just gets me mad)

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